All the planners I draw for start out with with paper and graphite.
"clintonG" <csgallagher@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:t89tg.1621$Bh.44@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I've actually done some of this type of planning and I agree with Bob
> Morrison's point of view but add more real world insight into how
planners
> actually do this type of work.
>
> Planners start by collecting print sets of maps obtained from various
> sources; county and state government, natural resource departments,
federal
> government and so on. They buy rolls of yellow trace paper from drafting
> product suppliers or art supply stores and overlay the trace on the maps
> they acquire using colored felt pens and markers to draw and layout
> preliminary design concepts with the emphasis on "preliminary." You want
a
> large room with lots of table-top work surface and lots of wall space
where
> maps and trace can be laid out, pinned or taped up during the
preliminary
> design phase.
>
> I hope you can trust what I say as I am trying to help.
>
> Because there are several low cost or free CAD programs you can find I
am
> tellinmg you straight out you will be wasting your time with them. First
of
> all you have to learn to use them and doing so efficiently is a PIA for
the
> novice. Not even the so-called "best products" from vendors like
Autoslime
> sup****t collaboration. The low cost or free software is even more
difficult
> to use efficiently. The vendors such as Autoslime and Bentley have the
best
> drafting features but they cripple their products to obstruct, hinder or
> prevent the customer's from using their drawing assets on their own.
They
> cripple their products to prevent them from being used with web
development
> for example.
>
> Coordinating CAD drawings for example is a hellish experience. If you
don't
> have at least one "workstation" with lots of RAM and multiple 22" CRT
> monitors or the equivalent design and drafting becomes a hellish
experienc
e.
> You will without question get "zoomitis" which will drive you crazy for
a
> land plan as large as 90,000 acres. Then for markups you still have to
plot
> at various useable scales using large format plotters which you likely
will
> outsource at up to $10-$20 a sheet. Do you see how using good old trace
is
> still the way to go for this type and scale of preliminary design?
Finally,
> if you can't draw a couple of parallel lines using a felt tip pen the
CAD
> program is not going to turn you into a skilled draftsman. Especially
for
> curvilinear linework so frequently used in laying out roadwork in
> subdivisions. The low cost and free CAD programs do not as a rule have
> optimized features for specialized drawing tasks.
>
> Secondly, the reason you don't go to CAD at the preliminary design stage
for
> this type of project is because you do not own your land. The government
> owns your land and using CAD on your own will be even more costly as I
hope
> to convey. You see, it sounds like you are a group of fools with their
heads
> stuck up their @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
that think they actually own the land. If you really
> owned your land you would not have to go beg for permission to use your
land
> from a group of big fat @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
****s who sell wallpaper or work at
insurance
> companies as their day job who have been elected by fools to "represent"
> them as as aldermen or county commissioners.
>
> Until you have spent months and months and months planning and dreaming
and
> working late nights and weekends with your colleagues only to finally be
> compelled at the point of a gun to go show and be told by some fat @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> **** who sells wallpaper that she doesn't think your work is in the best
> interest of her "constituents" you haven't even begun to enter the
depths
of
> hell.
>
> Using CAD is simply not wise at all during preliminary design phase by
> novices involved in a large scale project unless you have a group of
skilled
> users who know how to use the best CAD programs efficiently noting again
it
> is Bentley that makes the best software for this -- not Autoslime -- and
> still, the products are FUBAR crippleware compared to what the
technology
> has actually made possible.
>
> So do yourself a big favor. Get your base maps, use trace to develop a
> series of preliminaries and hand them off to a trusted land planner,
> landscape architect or somebody who has the experience working with the
big
> fat @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
****s who sell wallpaper at their day jobs who now control our
> land and other private property at the point of a gun.
>
> Finally, be prepared to "discover" there is a little grass s**** or some
> little rat on the land that occupies 45,000 acres of "its" habitat that
you
> will be disallowed from using. After a few months of trying to use "your
> land" you will know exactly what I mean.
>
> Best of luck to you...
>
> <%= Clinton Gallagher
> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
> URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/
>
>
>
>
> "Bob Morrison" <SpamFighter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1f1dc7ee83f059ad989bc5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > In a previous post Joe Johnson wrote...
> >> I've just obtained access to approximately 90,000acres of land that
me
> >> and other planers are choosing to develop into housing subdivisions.
We
> >> looking for a consumer or prosumer level software program so that we
can
> >> start preliminary drawings to develop a vision on our own before
going
> >> to the architect for the final plans. Can I get some suggestions as
to
> >> some good software programs on our expertise level (NO autoCAD, LDD
> >> etc...). We want to show housing lots, roads/streets,a huge lake or
> >> lakes, wooded areas, ect...
> >>
> >
> > Your kidding, right? You want a novice consumer level product to do
the
> > land development scheme for 90,000 acres.
> >
> > This is the kind of thing best done with a large scale map and some
> > colored pencils. Or if you prefer the "high-tech" approach, overlay
your
> > map with some mylar and use felt markers.
> >
> > When you're done give your scribbling to some design professionals.
> >
> > --
> > Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> > R L Morrison Engineering Co
> > Structural & Civil Engineering
> > Poulsbo WA
> > bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
>
>
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