Re: Hey Farml, Rob, David and All..

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:33:30 GMT, "0tterbot" <spl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

><Charlie> wrote in message 
>news:pa8ov39n23u29jenrhrrsnjp4g7ga1jd58@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:14:32 GMT, "0tterbot" <spl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> Just you wait.  The day will come when you will inherit and be called
>> upon to put on "The Mantle of Creakiness, Grumpiness and Curmedgeonly
>> Behavior",  having been passed down from generation to generation, from
>> time immemorial.
>
>considering how cranky i already am, i'm a bit worried ;-)

Hey, sounds like lots of ya are cranky and cranky is a good thing, imo.
;-) If more of us became cranked off, it would be a good thing.

>
>>>having said that, i think capitalism's weaknesses & problems are really
>>>starting to show now, though. there's nothing wrong with trade, buying
&
>>>selling (it's part of the human condition) but the way things are now
is
>>>just ludicrous. the peasants won't even rise up because the peasants
are 
>>>the
>>>worst of all!!
>>
>> I'm not clear about your point that the peasants are the worst of all.
>
>in australia we have a small but somewhat problematic socio-economic
group 
>called (by me) Greedy Dumb Bogans. whilst they may not be able to put
enough 
>filthy fast "food" from their local transnational cor****ation outlet on
the 
>table, by jingo they've got playstation and a massive flat-screen telly! 
>Greedy Dumb Bogans who actually manage to make a dollar (of their own)
spend 
>it on mcmansions, jet-skis & hotted-up cars.

Ahhhh.......gotcha.  Sounds like our white trash, prevalent in the
southern us.  Hardscrabble folks, living on the edge, but driving a new
huge pickup (ute), having satellite and flat-screen.  For a good
overview of redneck america, written by a redneck liberal, and not done
in an unkind manner, check out Joe Bageant.  He just did a tour of Oz
recently.  He really paints a good picture of america on the other side
of the tracks.

http://www.joebageant.com/


But, we also have our huge bunch that believed in the Great American
Dream and went in hock up to their eyeballs in order to have all the
latest gadgets.  It's crumbling as we speak.


>> True, but what if said incompetents are our relatives, friends,
>> neighbors......that is a concern of mine, our responsibility to others
>> and to what degree.  We are dealing with 300 million as compared to
>> your twenty millions.  It could get really fugly and really serious
>> really fast.  I'm thinkin' Mad Max on a grand scale.
>
>well, two things - people make their own decisions and we just have to 
>accept that; and secondly, despite being enduringly sad, the common folk
do 
>suffer for what their govts do (or don't do), it's just the way it is &
i'm 
>afraid i don't know how to change that. all of us can only do what one 
>person/family can. what else is there to be done?

Yep.  And that is what my family is doing.  As far as what else?  We
can run our mouths and hope to bring others to the realization that
things are looking bad.  It is having an effect with friends of my
children.  Just today younger son, who lost his rock truck on account
of high fuel prices and is now driving for a friend of his, had a
discussion with friend about the ****ing ethanol debacle that is taking
place.  Friend had no idea about the whole thing, just though it was
great for corn producers.  He changed his mind by the end of the run.

So, we do what we can, and hope that includes our neigbors so that they
won't shot us fer a 'mater. :-)

>> I'm rethinking my poo thoughts.  I for sure opt for the "lazy" route.
>> What about pathogens?  Parasites and different virii that can be
>> harbored by poo emitters and passed on in their emissions.  Should one
>> have concerns about this?
>
>well, i don't really know. i personally don't worry much as i just apply 
>common sense (i hope!): a sheet mulch of sheep poo on your garden bed 
>doesn't present a problem to anyone (you're not eating it after all! [are

>you?!] ) whereas personally doing a poo in your strawberry patch during 
>fruiting season certainly presents a problem (sorry about that - but
that's 
>the sort of thing that would present a disease scenario).
>
>the general methods for disease transmission apply in the garden too - 
>generally, dry things aren't germy. generally, the soil is chock-full of 
>pathogens because it's meant to be, so hygiene rules apply & being
sensible 
>is mandatory. your average handful of dirt is teeming with stuff you 
>probably don't want to know about, but it's meant to be there. you really

>would have your work cut out catching anything from a handful of nice
animal 
>poo or soil (whereas a soft-serve icecream could potentially kill you
with 
>listeria). let's face it, babies & small kids actually EAT dirt & it's 
>apparently good for their little immune systems! in theory, you can get 
>legionnaire's disease from potting mix, but in reality nobody ever does -

>they get it from hospital air-conditioning systems!

Yeah, as aware of and leary of the health system and media here as I
am, I seem to have fallen into the muck over this issue.  I grew up
mucking out stalls, chunking horse turds at friends, etc.  Never had a
problem.  Now I seem to have become paranoid about all this.  Thanks to
you al for reminding me that **** ain't gonna kill me, just follow
normal sanitary precautions.

>soil (and all it's additions - microbes, poo, organic matter) operates as
a 
>living, self-cleaning system, so generally speaking if you more or less 
>follow the way nature does it, you should be right. you end up with a 
>problem if you go against nature too much (e.g. putting poison in the 
>ground) or you go against common sense & poo on your strawberries, or 
>sometimes if you are unlucky (e.g. getting tetanus from a cut). overall, 
>though, it tends not to happen. mostly, we get diseases from other people
or 
>they are innate, we tend not to get them from the garden, because it's
just 
>common sense. having said that, a passing bird might poo right on your 
>beans, yet i don't think anyone's ever died from a household bean, have 
>they?



>anyway, that's my take. i am wondering what your poo thoughts had been 
>previously? what are they now? many people in australia are trying to
work 
>out sensible rules for dealing with potential pathogens in grey water, 
>rather than concerning themselves with the non-problem of manure, as 
>pathogens in grey water might be a genuine problem if the water is used
the 
>wrong way. but again, there are a few different schools of thought on
this. 
>i use grey water apparently quite safely, but i suspect my method is 
>non-approved (but i'm not sure, as there aren't overweening guidelines 
>except concerning specialist products (manufactured collection systems), 
>which i don't have).
>kylie 
>

See above for poo thoughts.  I've recently become interested in
greywate use.  It is nearly unheard of here.  It seems I need to be
directing my study to what you all are doing.

Damn, you youngsters (old old farts too) downunder have a good handle
on the situation.

We could have used the likes of you here about forty years ago when we
had the bastards on the run.

Care
Charlie