Re: Hey Farml, Rob, David and All..

"0tterbot" <spl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> "FarmI" <ask@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 be given> wrote in message

>> but this is the common western refrain. everyone seems to think their
>>> own country is uniquely going to the dogs and all young people are 
>>> useless, but i am continually having to point out that people have
been 
>>> going on about this for (literally) millenia, everywhere.
>>
>> Course they have, but nothing Charlie or I have said refutes that. 
>> charlie and I are just keeping up the traditio, and to prove how
tolerant 
>> we are, we've even read your post, whippersnapper.
>
> i may be a whippersnapper, but until you old fogeys (i.e. baby-boomers) 
> came along, in the olden days i would have been considered 
> middle-aged(!!!) so there!!!!!!!!!
> actually, in the real olden days i'd have been dead already, years ago. 
> there's a sobering thought.

When you put it that way, is is rather.
>
>> We didn't blame young people for the economic ills of the world for 
>> instance, but I do think we can blame then for being so demanding, so 
>> selfish and so unrepentant.
>
> i used to be demanding, selfish and unrepentant. AND i thought the world

> owed me a living!!!!!!! (and for good measure, everything was all about
me 
> and what i wanted). it's a bit embarrassing to think about now. naughty 
> young'uns of the present will repent in time, don't you worry ;-)

I hope so, but there are a few 30 year olds I'm still worrying aobut.  I 
would have thought that by the age of 30, one would be beyond it.
>
> 2 examples - that idiot teenager in Melbourne
>> who held the party while his parents were away (Cory someone) and the 
>> idiot kids who rampaged through the school in Sydney in the last few
days 
>> with baseballl bats.   By the age that these kids are, they should be 
>> able to figure out the consequences of their actions.  The fact that
they 
>> can't seem to do that is not a 'good thing'.
>
> erm, it takes us a long time to actually figure out consequences, i
think. 
> into young adulthood at the earliest, in most cases. some people really 
> are unusually mature, but i suspect that's, like i said, unusual.

I wonder if it might be gender related?  The girls I've known (and I had a

constant trail of the little floozies through the house not so many years 
ago) all seemed to be able to figure it out (and since they thought I was 
'cool', they talked to me about things they wouldn't talk to their parents

about).
>
> your first example is actually a good one - that child was only 
> participating in a time-honoured tradition of the it's-all-about-me age 
> group (being selfish & irresponsible & creating havoc) -

Assuming of course that I recognise that the 'all about me age' group
cannot 
figure out consequences, which I'm not yet willing to do....
..
but he was aided by
> new technology (technology invented by, run by, and mainly used by, 
> adults).

I don't buy that 'aided and abetted by' theory Otter.  The little mongrel 
shoul dhave had sufficient smarts to figure out what would happen, and
even 
if he somehow couldn't figure that out at the time of the party, he sure
as 
hell shuld have by the next day when all the **** fell on him.

> then more adults calling themselves (somewhat disingenuously) "the
media" 
> beat it up into a storm in a teacup. ffs, he is an unintelligent and 
> boring boy who will most likely be ashamed of himself within a few short

> years.

I'd like to think so but I suspect given his nauseous and continuous past 
party behaviour, that he won't.

> he's lost more than he could ever hope to gain - possibly he'll be
paying 
> for it his whole life. but, that's life. :-) did you read the recent 
> re****ts about how teenage boys actually don't have normal brains?

LOL.  Why stop at 'teenage' male brains?  No, I didn't read it but it 
doesn't surprise me.

i mean, we all
> know that instinctively, but it's actually true. most of them come out
of 
> it no harm done, thankfully. i am horrified to think of a few incidents 
> where i did the MOST ridiculous, selfish, & potentially deadly things,
due 
> to lack of thought, and i was a Good Kid, even!! and i do really mean
just 
> a handful of incidents such as anyone would get up to, but still. i just

> was lucky nothing really went wrong. this is common. probably more
common 
> though that most kids don't really get up to anything much - mostly it's

> just colour & movement & if anyone does suffer for it, it's only 
> themselves; they learn, they move on.
>
> the second example i'm less sure about, and it's actually much more 
> disturbing (anyone who wants to see "what it's like on the inside
(jail)" 
> deadset has a screw loose. that's not normal. (if he wants to know what 
> it's like inside, he should have watched the excellent american series 
> "oz" on sbs - that would turn ANYONE straight! :-) i would point out 
> though that kids who have genuine, large problems always have common 
> threads involving being let down by adults (whether their own family, or

> the community at large perhaps in this case, seeing as how the kids are 
> immigrants from an oft-maligned ethnic group.)

As opposed the kids who don't have genuine large problems?

Sorry, but I just don't buy that.  Being a kid is all about learning. 
That 
learning involved so much that I'm surprised that our brains haven't
popped 
by the time we reach early adulthood.

Everyone (be they child or adult) is always being let down by someone (be 
that by a child or an adult) and it goes on our entire life.  Learning
that 
is one of the most basic facts about life.  Like 'stress' it's how one
copes 
with it that makes us the people we are.  Whining about it or reacting 
inappropriately to being let down may be related to our 
background/familial/societal surroundings but not in all cases -it's too 
general to say that it comes from being 'let down'.

 i would point out that almost every recent study
> published re social cohesion & those types of problems almost always
make 
> the remark that the last 10-12 years has been particularly disastrous
(any 
> clue there, do you think??! ;-) social cohesion is just about the most 
> im****tant thing. it just is.

Yeah but social cohesion across the whole of society or within ones
society?

I'd agree that our entire society has certainly been deliberately
fragmented 
by bloody Howard (the louse used it as a social control mechanism), but 
within societal groups within the larger society, the cohesion
strengthened 
in some cases (eg the Muslims banded together because they had to do so).

teenagers, amusingly, often think they are
> im****tant & in charge of things & that everything's all about them, but 
> that is absolutely wrong. by the time they realise adults are in charge,

> adults run everything, & everything's all about adults, they are already

> adults themselves (that's how they come to realise the truth.) as
adults, 
> we have a massive obligation & sometimes we let other people down.

I'm sure we do it all the time in one way or another.

> having said that, charlie would no doubt opine that an incident of 5
teens 
> going mental in a school with bats is nowhere near as bad as teens going

> mental with guns in schools now averaging every 4 months and with deaths

> involved, as is happening in the u.s., or nowhere near as bad as a 
> majority of children of a nation having been roped into a militia & 
> killing people/being kept as *** slaves/both, as has happened in a
handful 
> of african countries of late (etc). it helps to keep our perspective, 
> what. we are extremely lucky in australia, although we work to make our 
> own luck, which helps.

I don't think we work nearly hard enough.  The Tampa was one of THE most 
disgusting examples of rascism I've ever seen.  I nearly makes me puke
when 
I think that it was a deliberate ploy by a very nasty politician to get 
himself and his government back into power and the Australian people were
so 
stupid that they not only believed it, but embraced it.

I had many arguments with my work collegues (who mostly aren't the best 
informed bunch I know) who parroted the "queue jumper" line.   Stupid 
bastards know nothing about how many illegal immigrants we have or how
they 
come into the country, but a few desperate refugees have then frothing at 
the mouth and spouting rascist garbage.

>
> the peasants won't even rise up because the peasants are
>>> the worst of all!!
>>
>> Because the peasants have been trained to 'want it all' perhaps?
>
> bingo!
>
>>> fwiw i pretty much agree with farmie about the ****, although i am 
>>> ignorant & she is magnificent.
>>
>> Snort!  Where did you get that strange idea?  What ARE you growing in 
>> your garden?
>
> well, magnificent is a very strong word, but take it where you get it
:-D

:-))  OK. I'll settle for 'impressive'.
>
>> If you are a VERY good girl and keep calling me magnificent, I might
just 
>> bring you a ute load one day :-))
>
> ooh, your choice of what's for afternoon tea!

Pikelets with strawberry jam and cream??????